westerosorting | Win or die? Eventually I'll do both.

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sorted: lannister

Win or die? Eventually I'll do both.

Name: Sam
How did you find out about the community? If it's through an LJ user, please tell us who it is: Deviantart, actually, browsing all things SoIaF.
Age: 21
Location: Northern Mass., for the next year, anyway.
Occupation: college student (philosophy/english doublemajor)

All About You

1. Describe your ideal house/home. Please go into as much detail as possible, and be sure to include your ideal geographical location in the description!.

Well, I like warmth. My mother has the Montaigne-like theory that people in warm climes accomplish less, though, and I have to agree a little there. Besides, I like some variety, so I'd say some sort of temperate region would be a nice start. If we're talking real-world, I'm a fan of northern Italy. Somewhere with long summers, heat lingering into autumn, and snow in winter (guess I can't specify seasonal length in Westeros, huh?).

As for architecture... well, if I must suffer through cold weather: fireplaces. Fireplaces, and lots of secret passageways to explore. I've always thought a good house, like a good book, ought to be majestic and labyrinthine. When I was a kid I liked to spend time searching out trap doors and so on in my attic. So secret passageways are a must. I like ridiculously baroque architecture, too. Not untastefully ornate, but... wide marble floors, echoing hallways, elaborate metal grilles... columns. Carved wood. Wood and marble are my favorite building materials, anything that will polish to a shine. Turrets! I would also like some turrets and balconies. A lake would be nice, with large carp, I could make puns about the carp. A stable and some horses, for sure. I love horses, though I failed, at a young age, to connect with them on a wide-eyed childishly fatuous level, as girls are supposed to do. Instead I just like to ride them fast. Yes, this may very well be directly analogous to how I treat romantic relationships.

I'd also like some forest around. I'm a fan of wooded areas. There ought to be some good climbing trees and interesting plants. I would say I wanted a rose garden, but that sounds like obvious Tyrell-fishing, doesn't it? I've wanted one for awhile, though I think the scent would get a little cloying eventually. Still, a garden with labyrinthine hedges sounds great. And some roses, okay, we can compromise there. And fruit trees. Damn, I've always wanted to pick my own fruit.

Stained-glass windows somewhere would be nice, too, but in most of the rooms I'd like plenty of light. And I would like some ridiculously comfortable couches and places to curl up. Really comfortable, none of that throw pillow nonsense. Seriously, throw pillows? They're like the small yappy dogs of furniture. Not my thing.

I'd like an intimidatingly large library, too.

Maybe I'm asking a little much here, but you did say ideal.

2. Name three things you are afraid of. Explain.

Failure: I grew up in a pretty successful, driven family, so I've always been aware of my parents' high expectations. Going to a 'gifted' school didn't help. I always got a lot of attention for my intelligence; almost as much as I got for my, um, obviously emotional instability. I guess I just feel like I ought to do something special, I worry that I'm not worthwhile if I'm not the best at everything I try... yeah, I worry about being the 'best' a lot. I'm quite competitive, so losing has a special sting. Funny how that works, right? The thing you care most about hurts you most. My brother, on the other hand, had a happy type-B childhood, spent caring more about pleasure than success. Ironically, he may wind up more successful than I am, because he is sane.

I am also afraid of unwitting moral failure. That someday I'll do something horrible and not realize it, or that my conception of the world is wildly skewed.

Death: That may sound stupid, but I spend a lot of time worrying about mortality and the human condition and all that stuff that sounds pretentious when I put it on paper. Honestly, though, I can't help it. It's like a whole emotion--fear-of-death. Sometimes it paralyzes me. Probably a teenaged thing. If so I wish it'd go away. On an intellectual level, though, it's definitely the reason I study philosophy. I could go into that, but I'd like to stop thinking about mortality now. All tied up with the overachievement complex, I'm sure.

I also don't like dead rotting things, though once I get over the initial revulsion I sometimes think they're interesting. Usually they really scare me in a memento mori sort of way. When I was a kid, I used to have dreams about black rot creeping over my vision.

Ridicule: I care a lot about what people think of me, and I don't love being teased. I can take it, and actually I tend to trade insults with the best of them, but real rejection, and people really thinking me pathetic and laughable... stupid, but it definitely bothers me. I thought about putting a more lighthearted fear here, like fear of fish. I am a little afraid of fish. When I'm swimming, I mean, and they're just sort of down there somewhere, waiting, and you don't know what they're doing.

I'd still have carp in my pond, though. I like keeping things I'm afraid of around, it's kind of thrilling. Besides, I'm really only afraid of fish when I'm in the water... and I have gone swimming with sharks anyway, so it's not like it's a crippling phobia. I lack crippling phobias, except the pretty reasonable crippling fear of imminent death.

3. Imagine you’re given the classic opportunity: a genie granting you three wishes. What would you wish for? Please be as elaborate as you can. Wishing for more wishes is not permitted!

1-I'd wish for the power to make the best, most clear-sighted decision possible on my second two wishes. Okay, that may not seem plausible, but this is a frickin' genie, okay?

2-I can't really say, since I'm not as enlightened here as I would be if the genie had granted Wish #1. But I'd probably ask for eternal youth. That'd about do it right there.

3-Since eternal youth is pretty fantastic, and I'd feel guilty getting ahead by other means, I should probably use this wish to get something for someone else. But knowing myself, I'd probably just ask for improbable martial arts skills instead. Or intelligence that's meta enough to allow me to admire my own intelligence. See, not enough people can do that.

4. In your life so far, what accomplishment are you the most proud of? Why? You can list more than one if you have trouble deciding. ;)

Surviving my boarding school. Seriously, that place was an intense, boot-camp-like experience, and it was extremely interesting. I won't go into too much detail here, but.. yeah... it was pretty much reform school. I was a troubled child.

Let's see. Accomplishments. Academic accomplishments feel nice, but I wouldn't say I'm proud of them; they're almost my job. Editorship on the college paper halfway through Freshman year was sort of an accomplishment, I guess. I'm always proud when I up my running times or distances or speed. I'm proud of a few things I've written, but I don't like to talk about that much.

I'm often less proud of things that win public accolades than I am of things that don't. I like to brag, but I like to brag about my qualities, not my achievements.

5. Which of the following is most important to you: Love, Money, Knowledge, Family, Friendship, Adventure, or Pleasure? Which is the least important to you? Please explain why for each choice.

Love is a completely presumptuous choice of 'most important thing', because I'm not sure I've ever actually felt it in its pure, mature form. (Knowledge is a close second here, by the way). Well, I know I love my family, but you know, that's sort of childish. Maybe if I were in love I would be less irritatingly arch. As, apparently, I am. And, internally, less messed up and cold and sort of superior. I mean, I don't feel superior, but it's a really ingrained defense mechanism.

Money is last on my list of Important Things. Look up at the description of my ideal house and laugh. I probably just feel this way because I've never really wanted for money. I mean, working summers and halftime during the schoolyear makes me appreciate it a lot more (and I loathe working for other people, so uh... yeah...), but I don't think the lesson has sunk in yet. After I graduate this may rapidly become Priority No. 1.

6. What's one quote (or passage, song lyric, etc.) that effectively describes you and your values? Explain.

Most primarily? "It is what it is." That is to say, just live by the reality principle. And then there's this:

"It's time to be alive, really alive. It's time there was a revolt in favor of life and wholeness." --Mark Rampion, from Aldous Huxley's Point Counter Point

Well, for a long time I struggled with this sort of... I guess it's a little Stannis-y! Anyway, this sort of compulsion to run my life based on theory and systems and order. And then I slowly started to realize pleasure is important, but not only pleasure, a really well-rounded human sort of life. Aristotelian moderation, I guess, but with room for passion and excess and effort. I like believing in failure and stupidity so that achievements have real meaning--I hate it when the reality is cushioned out of existence. I've felt that way a lot, what with the sort of cushion of expectations I've always gotten. I mean, standardized test scores shouldn't be this sinecure, but for me they sort of have been, so for awhile it messed me up.

I realize not everyone needs to hear this incitement to humanity. Hey, if simply being human and enjoying it comes easily to you, more power to you. I've always had to struggle with reason versus desire and shame and guilt and judgment and so on, so I need to remind myself of the reality principle. It is what it is. This is the sort of animal I am and this is how to use reason to govern it.

So I try to really live, and really experience things fully and sort of.... I don't know! I just tell myself to 'really live' a lot. All that be-in-the-moment stuff, and this fantastic nonjudgmentality. Embrace an extreme. A moderate extreme. Yeah.

7. How do you manage your money? On that note, how important is money/financial security to you? Go into as much detail as you can.

I earn it over the summers and spend it slowly over the schoolyear. That's been the pattern so far. At present I'm saving up for postgraduate... whatever I wind up doing. I tend to see money as a mark of achievement, so I don't like it when my balance dips too low, and I keep a good eye on it (in the past I was more reckless, but that's when it was really my parents' money, so...). I'm kind of miserly, not a careless spender (my best friend makes 'Jew' jokes about this, which actually kind of bother me). When I do spend money it is on something big that's really important to me, and I use the amount of money I spent on it to make me appreciate it more: that's what I did with the graphics tablet I bought this summer. Cost me a week's pay, and I used the hell out of that thing and really appreciated it. So I like using money to emphasize real value.

Financial security is important to me because security is important to me in general. I'm a little timid like that, I guess.

I'm also obsessive about paying people back. Not for any really good reason (definitely not because 'A Lannister always pays his debts!'), I just don't want to be seen as a freeloader. I hate owing people things. I have been told this is an outgrowth of my emotional coldness and unwillingness to be beholden to or connected to people. I'm not sure that's inaccurate.

8. Name (and elaborate on) some of your hobbies. What are your favorite things to do outside of school/the office?

Running. I like running! It's freeing, it doesn't involve undue coordination, and it feels really good. It also gives me some space to think and brainstorm. Second-favorite hobby next to the now-prohibitively-expensive horseback riding.

Writing. There's just something about putting my thoughts down in words, even though I loathe and detest the concept of the journal (self-indulgent!). But essays are fun. Newspaper articles were fun until I was scarred by a year as Arts Editor for the college paper. Stories are fun. Forum-based roleplay is a favorite. I'm way too into it, actually. Damn, I wish there were a really good Song of Ice and Fire-based roleplay board.

Reading. Is this a subset of 'writing'? Too much literary theory, ah. I love to read. Hell, I made it through three of the Song of Ice and Fire books in a weekend.

Live-action roleplay. Yes, I am a dork, but this is f*cking fantastic. I just started this spring, and man oh man. My LARP character is this arrogant drunkard who insults people wildly, flirts with everyone, declares that she is the most attractive, charming thing ever to hit the town (with a healthy dose of rueful self-mockery but an equally healthy dose of honest egoism), and is given to challenging people to duel over her 'honor'. Which doesn't exist. She is also a thief and a coward, so yeah. I think that's because I feel too constrained by my morals in real life. Nice to play a totally uninhibited character. I feel compelled to admit that I insult people and brag a lot in real life, too, but that is mostly in jest. Proving your mettle and honesty, you know? That's what insults do, I think.

Oh, and in live-action roleplay you get to hit people with boffer swords a lot. This is great for me, since I'm kind of a violent person. Repressed, mostly.

Art. I won't say I'm that great, but I enjoy it, and it's calming. And I am pretty talented. Just don't have the time to really dive into it enough to become fantastic. Fun anyway.

9. Name (and elaborate on) your top three BEST and top three WORST qualities (personality-related, not physical). Please answer as fully as you can, as this is an important question.

See, this is hard, because I'm not sure what to do with this. A lot of personality traits are neutral or lean both ways. Introversion or extroversion: is one better? A tendency to be rational or a tendency to be emotional--eh? And then if I put down a good quality like 'intelligence,' you'll all think I'm an ass. Fortunately, you'd be right. Onward.

BEST first (because that's easier)
-I'm principled. I like to think I am really and truly capable of rational moral judgment. I generally see what is right and wrong. Not to say I always do what's right, but I like to think I am clear-headed and independent-minded. See how I just shoehorned three virtues in there under one subheading? Here, have another: my principles make me a good friend, since I believe relationships take effort and act accordingly.
-I'm strong-willed. I do not back down from confrontation and I like fighting for what I believe in. Okay, I just like fighting. Moving right along here...
-I'm modest.
-Joking, joking. Let's see. I'm creative! Yep. Then again, what fan of a fantasy series isn't going to claim this one? I could add that I'm honest, but that goes under the whole principled thing. It is also not strictly and in all cases true.

WORST now (because I have to)
-I'm insecure. In fits and starts. That's probably why I'm arrogant. I struggle with it, it remains. I was born that way. Who knows.
-I'm emotionally needy. I often want validation from approving parental figures and attractive people. Bad. And shallow, too. On the bright side, this does not prevent me from arguing with those I think are wrong. In an endearing way if I still want them to like me.
-I'm lazy. Or maybe I only think I'm lazy. Nonetheless, here it is, five am on a Monday, and I haven't started this paper...

A Song of Ice and Fire Related

1.Who are your favorite three characters in the series? Why?

Tyrion! Tyrion may be an author-insert, but who cares? His psychology is incredibly believable. His witty remarks, sure, come cheap since Martin's writing the setup. But the vulnerability, the need to be loved... it's palpable and quite subtly rendered much of the time. It winds up sort of seeping into every interaction he has, that need. To me, it's also quite clear that his wit is itself another expression of his neediness--the need for pleasant social contact. Sometimes it's a real weakness, that neediness--I mean, Shae was obviously insincere from the first, so I've got to say I was a little disappointed by his blindness there. Strangling the girl was maybe a little excessive, but I'd probably have done the same, so what can I say? And I do admire his wit and perspective. He's sometimes the One Sane Man in nutso Westeros, too, which is nice.

Davos. He's like Ned Stark II, the quietly paternal good guy. I like his phlegmatic wisdom (seriously phlegmatic when he's coughing up a lung there post-stranding) and I've always had a soft spot for characters with missing fingers. Don't ask. Seriously, though, I enjoy the perspective he provides. It's nice and balanced and, dare I say, kinda sane, too. I'm less a fan of the really out-there characters, I suppose, the really flashy ones, the ones who seem a clear product of their genre. It's my thing for the reality principle. I also mention Davos because I wanted one of the Stannis faction. I'd say I like Stannis, but to be honest, I find him kind of ill-rendered. Maybe because he's not a POV-character, it just seems like Martin does too much telling and not enough showing when it comes to his principle, though I was genuinely impressed when he pardoned Davos (less so when he decided to kill everyone with evil magic, including his relatively benign if somewhat daft brother--what the hell?). Telling us again and again that he's got a hard jaw and a brutally-trimmed beard is not really doing the job there, G.R. R.

There are too many characters I like. I like the Hound a lot--I like his cynicism and his seething hatred. Jaime is growing on me; I like arrogant characters who suffer setbacks, and one of my RP characters is a lot like him. However, third favorite character, after some deliberation, is Varys. Varys is so fantastically theatrical it just makes me happy. It'd be a different series without Varys and his ostentatiously effeminate sliminess. I really like that sort of performative character. Varys is fantastic.

I guess Littlefinger is cool, too, though I found his scheming a little unrealistically overblown (it's easy to make a character a brilliant schemer when you're writing the whole cast, which is why I prefer characters who're more limited and flawed or who show their awesome in other ways). And I actually like Theon. Go impulsive characters with realistic flaws!

2.Who are your least favorite three characters in the series? Why?

Cersei. She was more interesting before she became a POV character. Now she's merely a shallow, vain, irritating character who's about ten times more irritating because I've got to listen to how shallow and vain she is. I would like her to die soon. Not due to any moral concern. She just bores me.

Khal Drogo. Man had no visible personality. He was basically a walking mythos for Dany to cart around. Private theory is that she smothered him because she realized, retroactively, that she was never all that into him to begin with, and is much happier to keep him around as an idealized memory.

Lysa Arryn. Apart from the laudable proportion of 'y's in her name, she is a screeching, unhinged caricature of a harpy. Very irritating and very obviously insane. And she simpers. I mean, seriously. The simpering. If she had been slightly less horrible, I might have decided I liked Littlefinger less for pushing her out the Moon Door, not more. As is, that moment rather lost its moral charge. Which is unfortunate, I think, since frickin' Littlefinger is too much adulated in fandom given he's a creepy bastard.

3.#1 Favorite moment in all of ASOIAF so far? Why?

You guys are killing me. This is incredibly difficult. It's probably pages 921-7 in Storm of Swords. I say this because those are the pages missing from my copy, so I can't be sure exactly what happens in them, but they must be fantastic.

In seriousness, it may be any scene with the Hound in it. I'm not sure why, since they're scattered and often understated, but I find his scenes to be the most emotionally-charged without shooting straight for melodrama or glib witticism sound-bites. Tyrion shooting his father was epic, don't get me wrong, but probably not as epic as Sandor's early disclosure to Sansa, or Arya's later decision to spare his life. It's not even that I think him such a well-rounded character; his scenes just meet my emotional-and-picturesque requirement, after a fashion. Of course, picturesque to me is a rough sort of thing. Believable, I guess.

I'd want to say a favorite scene is when Jaime rescues Brienne in the bear pit, but that's such a cutesy and romantic moment for the books, and it feels self-consciously so. I like how there's no instant gratification there, though, despite the absurdly dramatic gesture.

I cannot pick one moment. I give up on this question. I like imagining all the battle scenes. I liked Renly's last conversation with his brother, particularly in light of Stannis's later decision. It sort of resonated with me, since there's that whole 'dutiful and righteous versus pleasure-seeking and laid-back' dynamic--that reminds me of myself and my brother. Erm. Not that I would summon shadow-creatures to kill him or anything.

Forget what you heard here today.

4. In your dream-world, how would you like to see the series end, and why?

I have absolutely no preference. I'm pretty much along for the ride. I would really prefer it, however, if Jon and Dany did not have some sort of insane Sue/Stu romance. That would annoy the HELL out of me. I really like the series best when it plays down the epic elements and the frickin' destiny elements and all that ridiculousness. At this point I'm far more invested in the realism and integrity of the story as a whole than I am in any of the characters, favorites aside, so I'm not too bothered about character death. By that I mean I'm pretty securely with G.R.R. Martin and his plan, whatever that may be. Long as it's not more magical-children-destiny-blah, because that just... well, damn.

I've also noticed that most of the truly horrible characters have been killed off, Cersei aside, which leaves me feeling oddly rootless, really. I mean, Roose Bolton could bite it, but that old spark is gone. Gregor Clegane and Tywin Lannister, I hardly knew ye. I'm left mainly wanting the really annoying characters to die, which makes me feel uncomfortably meta and aesthetic in my judgments, since some of the most annoying characters are the most morally upright and protagonist-y.

Anyway.

Here's the thing. Westeros does not seem to be a good place for ideals. So an ideal ending would not be ideal.

I'd be kind of amused if Bronn wound up in charge of everything, Littlefinger wound up hoisted on his own petard, and, um, the Tyrells wound up recognized as the next Lannisters and swiftly thwacked with blunt objects to prevent unfortunate repeated history. Would also be cool if there was an epic battle and lots more death. And some romance for Jaime and Brienne would be funny, though I don't wish them a happy ending with that (if Brienne is, spoiler alert, even alive at this point). I do want Cersei and Catelyn to die already (again, in the latter case). And, um, basically I lack any care for the Stark children. Not because they're bad people, I'm just sick of the stupid magical-destiny business. i would like them very much without it, I am sure. For the same reason, I dislike Dany's story, though the girl herself seems cool and all. Just too much flavor of the epic.

Also, Varys should wind up ruling the world.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Psst, your lj-cut is broken!

Hey there, looks like you submitted your application in the rich-text editor. Could you hit edit and paste it in to the HTML editor (http://i34.tinypic.com/30arwxl.gif) instead?

Ah, sorry! I'm rarely on LJ, and... actually needed that helpful diagram. Thank you. Fixed now.

No problem, and as for my vote I'll come down on the Lannister side just barely over the Targ.

I seriously considered Targaryen and Tyrell (you're so thoughtfully self-aware -- that always twangs me as a Tyrell trait), but overall it all adds up to Lannister to me. Your wishes and fears and choice of love and knowledge are very Targaryen (well, a Lannister would fear ridicule as well, but overall), but the vibe just doesn't feel Targ to me -- you are too grounded and self-aware to be a Targ in my book. It looks like you've got both the Lannister drive (needing to be the best), and the Lannister need for recognition/validation (which gets twisted/expressed in weird ways in canon but is I think a strong driver for all of them), and the combination of arrogance and the ability to mock oneself is also a very Lannister trait. Plus, as

shelled_avenger said, the emphasis on the less fantasy epic, more realistic aspects of the books seems to fit Lannister better than any of the other houses I considered.

Lannister I think.

I doubt Gregor's completely dead, Qyburn was experimenting with him and then asked for extra large armor or something, right?

And I respectfully disagree on Renly being daft. ;P

Welcome!

You know, I was perhaps hasty in my condemnation of Renly (and I love him anyway, I'm just universally judgmental), and it's funny you should mention it. He actually has one of my favorite lines in the books: "No one wants you for their king. Sorry." I just love that 'sorry' thrown in like that. I still think he's a bit... naively stubborn. Private theory is the Tyrells were the ones who pushed him to insist on kingship. I'm actually really into all of the Baratheons and sort of wish that House were an option here--'Ours is the Fury' ftw.

As for Gregor, it's just not the same when they come back all undead. :(

Thanks for the welcome! :D

--sorry if that was too long an interjection. I fail at brevity.--

Naive, definitely. I'm not convinced of the stupid though. I could go on a long rant about why I think he's smarter than lets on (I think Renly watched Robert and Stannis long enough to know which kind of rat gets the cheese) but taking a look at his talks with Ned in AGOT and with Catelyn and Stannis in ASOS, I think it's clear that he had something going on up there, even if his ideas were unrealistic.

Idk about the Tyrells pushing him. I mean, they're certainly sneaky and ambitious enough...but who really wanted Renly as king? Mace was too stupid to come up with it on his own, Olenna seems to want out of the whole buisness and Loras, bless him...well he seems clever enough, but certainly no mastermind. If it was one of them, my money's on Garlan or Willas, but I think Renly perfectly capable of such schemes. He clearly had a deal with the Tyrells, though what that deal entailed can only be guessed at...though I have my theories.

And long interjections are welcome!

Ooo, now that I think about it, it would be hilarious if Margaery was the ultimate mastermind behind everything. Everything XD

Also, fyi, at least part of the reason we don't have Baratheon as an option is that we don't feel that the House has as many defining characteristics than other houses and the few we can wrangle out are not exactly the types of characteristics you want to group a bunch of people together in a competition. (Stannis and Renly, for instance, have little in common besides entitlement issues, imo). In between games (right now that's every six months, we might knock it down to four) we go through huge rules over hauls and have polls about it. Likely, this issue will come up again so you can look out for that and show your support. It may happen one day.

Yeah, fair enough, though I think I could pin down a few Baratheon traits. Overconfidence, determination, stubbornness, impulsiveness, impatience; most of them are easily angered. Firebrands the lot, pun intended.

It would be fabulous if Margaery were the mastermind behind everything. She could marry and rule beside Littlefinger. I could see it. As to the Tyrells pushing Renly into kingship, you may be right. Seems like he decided that on his own, though I don't think he'd have done it without the Tyrells' enthusiastic support (they have a lot of influence over him; his marriage to Margaery IS 'the mortar that held the great southron alliance together'). And remember that Renly did flee the city when he didn't think he had enough men to back Ned... without the Tyrells he wouldn't have been able to venture his bid for kingship, nor do I think he'd have wanted to.

I suppose you could argue that Renly strong-armed the Tyrells into alliance with him via Loras, who was an obvious ally (I mean, he's in love with Renly). And I think the Tyrells would have to support Loras; they seem like a supportive family, and besides, Loras is extremely charismatic, popular... Knight of Flowers.

Ah, who knows.

Oh, I don't think Renly's naive at all, actually. I think all his choices have a rational political basis and he's much, much less naive than any of his opponents in the War of the Five Kings. And would have been the best king of the lot, IMO. He just gets unlucky because Stannis has Melisandre.

I think a lot of people subconsciously equate "having lots of pretty things around" with incompetence. I think Catelyn kinda did on some level when she was all agog at Renly's accommodations (she's used to the Stark aesthetic), but I think there's a good reason for having that nice setting and the tourney. It keeps morale up and keeps the men there, which is a big problem that Catelyn and Robb actually discuss before she goes off to treat with Renly.

I think a lot of people subconsciously equate "having lots of pretty things around" with incompetence

This so much. XD

Upon reflection, I will contradict myself and agree with you; I was actually very pro-Renly when I first read the books, and have covered up the trauma of his death by telling myself it was due to naïvété.

I don't fear to contradict myself. It makes me right at every moment. ^^

But yeah--I think Renly is just screwed because he's in a G.R.R. Martin book. Martin doesn't like the idealistic, picturesque ones, I don't think. XD Well, apart from Dany. Besides, if Renly had won, Tyrion and Jaime would be goners.

So he had the idealistic, picturesque hero (Renly) killed by... a sort of Deus Ex Machina... shadow creature.

That actually angered me. I mean, punishing the picturesque is one thing, but doing it with some contrived magic is quite another. Those are the two things that annoy me most in fantasy right there: contrived magic and Beauty = Good. Contrived magic? Definitely annoys me more. And it won. Argh. I suppose I was justifying it to myself by saying that idealism does deserve punishment, but damn.

What would the books have been like had Renly cut off Stannis and Melisandre's heads instead, and gone on to destroy the Lannisters? Robb et al. would be alive... Jaime and Tyrion might be dead, so sad. The books would likely be shorter, more picturesque, less morally ambiguous-(seeming) (though G.R.R. would find some way to screw it all up anyway)... and gayer.

Had to say it. Don't hurt me.

I can see where the Lannister votes are coming from. Especially in your insecurities and your little asides about your upbringing I see Lannister, Lannister, Lannister. But I see lots of Tyrell, too. Right from the beginning, when you described your ideal house so thoughtfully and with so much detail. You are very aware, which I associate with Tyrell (you gotta be aware if you're gonna be manipulative, right? :D). You kind of remind me a lot of me. We have similar insecurities and personality attributes (I, too, consider myself to be principled and stubborn), which makes me like you (we're kinda similar, cool!) and so I'm going to do the thing that makes sense and claim you for my house - Tyrell, Tyrell, Tyrell!

... I feel SO compelled to say 'There is no one like me. There is only me.' However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (and I don't want to seem like I'm fishing for Lannister, as I'm not; lots of Houses have egoists, just think of Loras and Oberyn, and Viserys after his fashion: Jaime just has the best quote). :P

Plus, I looked at your old application, and it does seem we share a liking for Søren Kierkegaard--my obsession with him is fabled among my friends, I spent a year reading his journals. And Either/Or rocks. He wouldn't survive a day in Westeros, though, poor guy. Anyway! Hi. :)

Allrighty-then, you unique snowflake you. :D

I actually haven't studied Kierkegaard much, I just like the quote. I am a total fraud, on noez! Maybe some day, though. I've only taken one philosophy course in my life, and I thought I'd love it because I like to think about the so-called Big Questions - but I didn't. Go figure. I'm more of a sociology person.

*insert xkcd crack at sociology here*

Anything but Unique Snowflake Syndrome. I'm not unique, I'm just better.

And I hope you realize I'm joking.

I'm not unique, I'm just better.

Hmm... maybe I should vote you Lannister...

I know you're just joking. ;) I'm not exactly being serious, either.

Targaryen! Mostly because of your fears. I think similar fears are one of Dany's biggest flaws, and sort of what made the other Targs go crazy. NOT THAT I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO! But! Still.

Hey, nuts rule the world. I don't mind being called crazy.

I'm intrigued, though. I find myself hard-pressed to understand Dany as a character a lot of the time, largely because she doesn't seem to have that many fears, once she got past her initial timidity about... everything. Now that you've pointed it out, though, I guess I can see fear of failure there a bit... she's the last of her line, the Dragon, etc. Interesting! It's cool to get more of a perspective on House Targaryen from you guys. I'm getting all these votes and now feel a bit ashamed that I didn't pay more attention to Targaryen traits and values in the books.

I can see the Targaryen, but the obsession with paying back debts tips you over into Lannister.

I was actually thinking Tyrell more than Lannister, although I do see a little bit of Tyrion in your application. But from the beginning (when you wanted a place with secret passages--Hello, Red Keep), I thought perhaps you'd be best in King's Landing. You also remind me a bit of Maester Aemon. I dunno. There was something about your answer to the quotation question that made me think of someone who would give up court and go to the Wall. Targaryen.

It's probably pages 921-7 in Storm of Swords. I say this because those are the pages missing from my copy, so I can't be sure exactly what happens in them, but they must be fantastic.
I love this answer so much. I'm not sure if I should offer to copy paste those pages from my electronic edition (it's not stealing if you bought it anyway) or if it's better with you not knowing. I mean, could they be more fantastic than they are in your mind?

I think I did read them at some point, actually. They may be the pages wherein Jaime gives Loras a talking-to (and in that case, ARGH I want to read them again). And I don't really see an ethical problem here: I bought a shoddy copy of the book, it lost pages, I demand recompense! If you don't mind, of course, it'd be very nice of you. Thank you. <3 Um, do you need my email?

Tangent--Maester Aemon! OH man. I loved how they had him admit to fear of death at the end, I always hate it when old characters are just at peace.

You could email me. Mine is bintwin at yahoo dot com. And it's a Jaime chapter? When he comes back to King's Landing? (I'm not sure the pagination is the same in all editions so I want to make sure I have the right bit.)

I love Maester Aemon. I hated his death because it made me cry, cry, cry, but I also loved it because it felt real. There was something very poignant about him having read all those books and studied for 100+ years and just *barely* missing out on dragons.

I see the Targ, but I think I see more Lannister.

I was definitely seeing both Targaryen and Tyrell in this. I think I'm going to go with Tyrell, because I think it fits the overall feel better than Targ.

Also, it's -hilarious- that you should have mentioned Baratheon, because when I started reading, my -first- first thought was that I wished I could vote you as a Baratheon. Then I saw your comment about wishing it was a votable House. I guess my first instinct was win. ;)

I'm seeing overall Targaryen :)

Lannister, I think.

Definitely Lannister.

I'll side with the people who picked Targaryen

Lannister.

I'm between Lannister and Targaryen. You would fit in either house really well, but there was a certain wit and humor that came through your application that reminded me of Tyrion and Jamie so I am going to go with Lannister.

The arrogance/insecurity/rejection/witty-rejoinder cocktail that comes with growing up in a high-pressure family hollers Lannister to me. ("Gifted" education, do not even get me started). Your whimsy and clear intellectualism are a little bit at odds with the Lannisters' pragmatist tendencies, but there's no house that corresponds to academia, so let's just say you're what the Lannisters could be if they weren't running a mafia war? I feel like they also place enough value on conversational tactics to come up with some of the lovely sentences in this app, or bust out Montaigne in the first paragraph.

Also, I'm curious-- your icon is haunting; where is it from?

I drew it, actually. It's an RP character of mine.

It's gorgeous. The lighting! Original, or established character?

Original character, one of my favorites. He's a barely-contained ball of seething anger, sadism, self-hatred, and emotional neediness [the product of a brutal, flawed military training program]. And he's ridiculously flamboyant. I began playing him long before I read G.R.R.'s books, but in retrospect, I'd describe him--psychologically speaking--as a cross between the Hound and Varys. No wonder I enjoy those characters.

I tend to roleplay on non-fandom-based boards, generally. When it comes to RP, I'm much more comfortable with original characters.

Thanks for the compliments, btw. :) As I said, I do enjoy art; I wish I had more time for it. That lighting took ages; I didn't use a reference. Hm, as part of this community I shall have to do some Song of Ice and Fire fanart.

Lannister, for sure. I thought Lannister as soon as I saw 'boarding school' for some reason... it seems like a Lannister-ly thing to do.

Lannister.

I saw a Lannister/Tyrell mix. I think I'll go with Lannister (for intelligence, traits, favorite characters), although a lot of stuff fit Tyrell too (intelligence, house, horse-back riding).

You're very interesting. Reading your application was enjoyable. And I think you are a Targaryen.

Oh, hi there Lannister!

Hmm, your sense of humor and practicality seems very Lannister-y (there seems to be a lot of Tyrion in you, particularly). I did see Tyrell traits too, and would love to have you join our house (this app was so funny!), but I think Lannister wins out.

Lannister definitely and I'm glad I get such a strong feeling from this one, I was beginning to think my sorting intuition was broked. XD I ...actually sympathize with a lot of this and there are bits of this that remind me of me (is that egotistical? I don't know, it was mostly the worst traits >.>) but you're deeeefinitely not a Stark. I also see the Tyrell. But not the Targaryen, especially with the objection to fate and the like. I think Targaryens are much more into that, Lannisters like to make their own way.

Yeah ... I can see where the Targ and Tyrell votes are coming from, but overall vibe says Lannister to me.

Not very original, but i have to the Lannister votes

Congratulations! After receiving two votes for Tyrell and seven votes for Targaryen, you have officially been sorted into House Lannister with seventeen votes!!

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Win or die? Eventually I'll do both.

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SORTED: LANNISTER