westerosorting | win or die

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sorted: stark

win or die

Name: Clare
How did you find out about the community? If it's through an LJ user, please tell us who it is: Through a link on

loveweasleys04's journal. Its also through her that I began reading the series; she mentioned it so often in her LJ and it sounds like such an interesting series of books that I just had to try them. SO glad I did. Thanks for the recommendation, Beth! ^_~

Age: Twenty-six
Location: Near Birmingham, UK
Occupation: House-wife/ mother and sometimes student (my studies are on hold until after the birth of my second son)

All About You

1. Describe your ideal house/home. Please go into as much detail as possible, and be sure to include your ideal geographical location in the description!.

I always say my 'dream home' is Anne Rice's house in the New Orleans Garden District. I've been fascinated with New Orleans and the Garden District ever since I read Rice's book "The Witching Hour"However, I know given the choice I'd never want to move that far away from my family.

Realistically, my ideal home would be a good sized house - living/ sitting room, dining room, kitchen, large bathroom and say about four bedrooms - within the area I live now (West Midlands, UK) so that I'd still be close to all of my family, but maybe a little further out into the country, so I that was away from the hustle and bustle of the city.

I'd also LOVE a garden. I currently live in a fourth-floor maisonette, so when my son wants to go out and play, he can't just run out the back door like he does at his Nan's house, he has to be taken to the park or something similar. Plus, if we had a garden, it'd be easier for us to have some sort of family pet.

2. Name three things you are afraid of. Explain.

Losing my loved ones. I know that death is a natural part of life and I've seen all but one of my grandparents die and have eventually come to terms with that. However, the thought of losing anyone before their time is the most horrible thing imaginable to me. Especially my partner or sons.

Having to move back into my mum's house/ be dependent on others for things. As neither me or my partner currently work, its taken us a few years to get on our feet in our own place - and before that, we lived with my mum - so, for a while when we first moved into our maisonette, we had to rely on my mum to do our washing, and we were always having to borrow money from her etc. Now, we have a lot more stability and I find myself asking for favors less and less. I'd hate to imagine a situation where we lost the independence we have, and had to move back in with my mum.

Spiders; this one is pretty self explanatory, but I just find them so creepy.

3. Imagine you’re given the classic opportunity: a genie granting you three wishes. What would you wish for? Please be as elaborate as you can. Wishing for more wishes is not permitted!

Knowing that neither my partner or I would suffer from metal health issues again. Over the past few years with both had problems with anxiety, depression etc. and even though we're on top of things now, and know we'd seek help before they got really bad, it'd be nice thinking of a future where these issues would just never come up again.

Financial security; I'm not talking of millions of pound here. Just enough that we could buy our own house (and not have to rent any more), get married and go on holiday/ vacation somewhere nice.

A car and the ability to drive or for cheapness sake, the ability to fast travel/ teleport somewhere. Even though I currently live close to the town center and things like shops, bank, restaurants, school and the doctor's surgery are all within walking distance from my home, because neither my partner or I drive, we have to rely on relatives to give us rides to places further away - i.e whenever we want to visit a relative, they have to come to our house or pick us up and take us to their house, and when my son has activities with Scouts that aren't at the local Troupe Hall, then his Granddad has to give him a ride there. It'd nice not to be so dependent on people for certain things.

4. In your life so far, what accomplishment are you the most proud of? Why? You can list more than one if you have trouble deciding. ;)

I think ,just how far my life has come in the past seven years. In my late teens, I was still living with my parents, with no decent qualifications and no desire to ever get a proper job. The relationship between myself and my current partner wasn't great; we were selfish kids -- too stubborn to walk away, but too immature to treat each other properly. Plus, both my partner and I had metal health issues that we couldn't admit to/ weren't willing to get help with.

Then, just before turning twenty, I gave birth to our son.

Over the last (almost) seven years, I've gotten my own place to live (even if I am renting), started getting qualifications so that one day I can get a decent job, sorted out the issues with my partner, so that we have a relationship based on love, trust and respect, gotten over mental health issues and supported my partner through his, raised a child who is now a well adjusted (almost) seven-year-old who is doing well at school, and is happy and healthy and now we have a second little boy on the way. ^_^

5. Which of the following is most important to you: Love, Money, Knowledge, Family, Friendship, Adventure, or Pleasure? Which is the least important to you? Please explain why for each choice.

Can I say both love and family for most important. To me, the two go hand in hand. My family and the love I have for them (and get in return) is more important than anything else. I could have a crappy day with nothing better to eat than beans on toast, and it could still turn out to be good due to something simple like a kiss from my partner, a hug from my son or having coffee with my mum and sister.

Least important would be adventure. I'm more than happy being at home and just enjoying the simple things in life.

6. What's one quote (or passage, song lyric, etc.) that effectively describes you and your values? Explain.

Not a passage as such, but a part from the final "Chronicles of Narnia" book; The Last Battle, in which Aslan explains that those who have been loyal to Aslan, or to the morality upheld by Narnians, join Aslan in Aslan's Country and those who have opposed or deserted him become ordinary non-talking animals and fade into shadow and vanish to a fate unknown. Even those who worshiped the false Calormene god Tash are allowed into Aslan's Country, as all faithful worship to Tash was actually worship to Aslan. Whereas the dwarfs, who believed nothing, see nothing within the barn and don't realize what they've missed out on .

I very much like the idea that when death comes, whatever you believed in throughout life, will be your fate. So, if you had no religious views, you just cease to exist and know no different. Where as, if you believed in a God, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' God, and that all Gods of all the different religions are one and the same, just under different names and as long as you've worshiped your God faithfully, then you're allowed to pass through to the "beginning of the true story, which goes on forever, and in which every chapter is better than the one before."

7. How do you manage your money? On that note, how important is money/financial security to you? Go into as much detail as you can.

I think now, I manage money a lot better than I did in the past. When my partner and I first moved in together, we were forever going over our over-draft limit, having to borrow money from my mum and paying bills late etc. Now, we budget our money a lot better, so that our monthly bills are broken down into a way that we can pay them off, but still have money for ourselves etc. We're also a lot better at saving than were were, and instead of getting into debt at times like Christmas, etc. we have everything planned out so we buy a little each week.

However, that isn't to say I wouldn't like to move away from the low income we have. Now, if we want anything big (like a new TV/ a holiday/ to get married etc.) we'd have to save for months, maybe even years in advance. It'd be nice just to be able to go into a shop and buy a HD TV, or when our computer broke a few weeks ago, we were able to repair it, but it would have been nicer to be able to afford to buy a new system altogether. I'd also love to be in a position where we could buy our own house, instead of renting. Although for now, I'd happily rent a house if it meant having a garden.

8. Name (and elaborate on) some of your hobbies. What are your favorite things to do outside of school/the office?

I love reading, especially fantasy. I often feel quite lost if I haven't got a book to read, even if I only have the time to read one chapter a day. Reading for me is an escape from the stresses of life, and there's nothing I enjoy more than reading a good book in a hot bubble bath for a few hours.

I also greatly enjoy writing, and have written a few fan-fictions - as well as working on ideas for original stories - over the years. Although, in the last six months, I have felt the muse leave me a little and have found writing a lot harder than I use to. I hope its something that comes back to me in the future.

My love of writing and doing that in my spare time seems to have been replaced by a love of graphic making, and ever since doing a basic course in Adobe Photoshop, I'm always trying to learn new techniques and skills. I often find myself making a banner/ graphic for something just for the fun of it.

I also greatly enjoy watching TV shows and movies with my partner, and every evening we spend at least a couple of hours watching a film or one of our favorite shows together. And, when given the chance, I like playing video games, and one of the things my partner and I look forwards to is the release of a good co-op game that we can play together.

9. Name (and elaborate on) your top three BEST and top three WORST qualities (personality-related, not physical). Please answer as fully as you can, as this is an important question.

Good Qualities:

I'm caring. I'm always there for people who are important to me, no matter how great or small the problem. I'd happily sacrifice the free-time I get to spend on myself if someone I cared about needed me.

Going hand-in-hand with being caring, I think I'm a good listener. I find friends and family coming to me to talk, whether its something small like a situation at work has annoyed them or something more important like a fight with their partner. My mum has also often said I have a good insight into situations, why certain things happen and seeing things a little more objectively. She actually said I'd make a good counsellor.

I'm loyal. To both my family and my very close friends, I stick by them through thick and thin and would defend them to the end of the world. It would take a lot for me to actually fall out with someone, and even if I've had misunderstandings with a person, I'll try my best to resolve the situation before giving up on the relationship. I also try not to judge people, and even if I don't agree with someone's lifestyle choice, I stick by them because I love them and am willing to accept these differences. It would take something big, like a betrayal of trust for me not to give someone another chance.

Bad Qualities:

I'm lazy; if I can put something off until later, I will do. If I can do something quickly and with little effort, I will do. I don't like doing chores, like the laundry, and will put it off for as long as possible.

I sometimes live a little too much in my own world. It isn't as bad as it use to be - where the house could have been falling down around me and I wouldn't have noticed - but I do tend to live in my own little bubble and sometimes need reminding of reality. I'm lucky to have a great partner like I do; he keeps me grounded.

I'm anti-social. I find it very hard to make new friends/ talk to strangers. With the people I'm close to, I'm very open, honest and talkative. However, it takes me a long time to build up that bond with people. Even though my son has been going to the same school for the past three years, I'm still only at the level where I'd say "hi" to the parents of other kids in his class. I won't go out of my way to make small talk with them or be a little more sociable. Though, funnily enough, I find it a lot easier to make friends and be sociable with people online. I guess I just relate to people easier via a PC than I do in person! *lol*

A Song of Ice and Fire Related

1.Who are your favorite three characters in the series? Why?

Oh, gosh, this is so hard to choose, as I love so many of the characters.

Dany -- I LOVE the character development she's gone through. From meek, slightly naïve little girl who was pretty much dominated by her brother, to strong, independent woman, mother, and ruler. I some ways, I see myself in Dany; having gone from relying on my family to gaining independence and having my own family, much like she has.

Jon Snow -- Again, because of the character development he's gone through. When the series began, he was the over-shadowed, bastard son, who never fully fitted in. And now, through his own determination, strength of character, loyalty and sense of what is right, he's become Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

Tyrion -- He is the perfect example of shades of grey in the series. Even though he is from the 'bad' family, you can't help but like him, admire what he does and want him to succeed where Tywin and Cersei fail. Plus, he's one of the funniest characters in the books.

2.Who are your least favorite three characters in the series? Why?

Catelyn Stark. I liked her at first and thought she seemed like a good mother and wife. However, I was given pause after Bran was pushed from the window by Jaime and she told Jon it should have been him. Jon didn't ask to be Ned's bastard and he didn't ask to be brought to Winterfall. I strongly believe no child should be punished for the sins of their parents. And, as Lady Stoneheart, something just doesn't sit right with me. While it makes a good dramatic storyline, I don't think she's the right leader for the BwB, (though understandably) she's worryingly obsessed with revenge and I don't think she is what R'hllor (if he's real) had in mind when he began resurrecting people.

Gregor Clegane. I was appalled when reading AGoT to discover he was the one responsible for the burning and disfigurement of his own brother, Sandor. And then, as if couldn't be any more of a monstrosity, he raped and killed Elia Targaryen, then smashed the head of baby Aegon into a wall. Plus, I despise the way he goes through Westeros burning, killing and raping without giving a damn about anything or anyone else. He shouldn't be called "The Mountain that Rides" but intead "The Monster that Rides".

Theon Greyjoy. I hated the way he betrayed the Starks and treated Bran and Rickon. They did not deserve to be killed nor was there a reason to do so; he could have still held Winterfall and taken the North just by having them in captivity. There's never a reason to kill children, but especially not children you've grown up with and were almost like family to you. Its unforgivable.

3.#1 Favorite moment in all of ASOIAF so far? Why?

I found this question incredibly hard. I was going to ask if I could list a favorite moment from each of the books, but then when three moments from AGoT alone came to mind, I knew I had a problem! *lol*

There's SO many wonderful moments in the series -- moments that are so shocking you have to pause to take in what you're reading, moments that are so awesome you stop to yell 'yes!' and grin, and moments so sad they tear your heart out.

If I have to pick just one favorite moment, then it has to be Dany's final chapter in AGoT, for the reason it has that shock-factor, the wanting to punch the air and yell "yes!" and the sadness all in one.

I was SO pleased when her marriage to Drogo worked out, and then she discovered that not only was she carrying his son, but their son would be the prophesied "stallion who mounts the world".

Having lost a child myself, I was heart broken when Mirri Maz Duur's spell wasn't as it seemed, and Dany's son died. But matters were only made worse and more tragic when it became clear that Mirri Maz Duur's spell hadn't worked as Dany had wanted, Drogo was no longer the man he once was, and she was forced to kill him.

Yet out of all this tragedy and sadness, as Dany stepped into Drogo's funeral pyre with her three dragon's eggs, something amazing happened.

Not only was she unburnt, but she was cleansed of her past life and tragedies and stepped out as the strong woman she was destined to become; The Mother of Dragons.

For me, that was just an awesome ending to the first book, and real "wow, oh my god" moment that was not only incredibly sad at first, but had be grinning from ear to ear by the end of it.

4. In your dream-world, how would you like to see the series end, and why?

For Dany to return to Westeros, and along with Jon, defeat the Others. Then, for them to discover that Jon is actually the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. And finally, in Targaryen tradition, Jon and Dany marry and rule the Seven Kingdoms together.

I'd also love to see Sandor fight and defeat his brother, and win the love of Sansa (who has out-tricked Littlefinger and won back Winterfall), and for them to rule the North together.

I want Bran to help his sister rebuild Winterfall, and then through his Warg abilities, be able to walk again and become a Knight or maybe the Commander of Dany's Queen's guard.

I want Rickon to become Lord Commander of the Night's watch, and help his sister defend the North against any future threat.

And finally, I want Arya to vanquish Lady Stoneheart - not kill, but show her humanity and that blindness killing for revenge is wrong, so that her mother can peacefully accept death - and then Arya herself lead the BwB, much like Nymeria is leading a giant pack of wolves across Westeros.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You're kind of hard to place, but I'm catching some Tully on the radar.

It was tough to decide between Tully and Stark as the qualities of both houses overlap but although you don't like her, you remind me of Catelyn. Therefore I vote you Tully.

I think the emphasis on your family point to Tully for me.

I'll side with Stark because of the not being as social part.

I was kind of thinking Tyrell. Maybe it was the garden thing.

I was seeing a lot of Tully (or maybe quieter Tyrell) in the personal answers section, but the book answers pretty much swayed me towards a Tully-ish Stark (one of Cat and Ned's kids -- it's been a while since we've had one of those, I think). So, I'm going to go with Stark -- fits better with the being less social and the fear of burning.

Thanks for the vote, but I think it was

scarletfall who said they had a fear of burning in their application. ^_^

Why do I always agree with hamsterwoman? Your faults, in particular, reminded me strongly of either Jon or Sansa--that sort of encapsulation in your own world, introversion, and obliviousness. And the caring, loyal bit is both Tully and Stark--but combined with your reserve, Stark.

I'm getting a very Stark vibe from you

Although you list her as one of your least favorite characters, you do seem a lot like Catelyn. A lot of your qualities are right in the middle of Tully and Stark, but I think your emphasis on family pushes you into the Tully realm.

You're a Stark. You've got that idealism going on, combined with your reserve and pack protection.

A note on this because I am always interested in talking about Theon: There's never a reason to kill children, but especially not children you've grown up with and were almost like family to you. Its unforgivable.

This actually plays into one of the things I find most fascinating about Theon. He agrees with you, his one moral stopping point is killing Bran and Rickon. He would have abused them, maybe, but never killed them because killing people you grew up with seems wrong to him. Yet, in the same thought he sees nothing wrong with killing peasant children who were completely innocent. It's a really awesome moral dilemma, in my opinion.

This actually plays into one of the things I find most fascinating about Theon. He agrees with you, his one moral stopping point is killing Bran and Rickon. He would have abused them, maybe, but never killed them because killing people you grew up with seems wrong to him. Yet, in the same thought he sees nothing wrong with killing peasant children who were completely innocent. It's a really awesome moral dilemma, in my opinion.

I always thought that by the time he'd spent hours tracking them in the forest, he would have killed them if he'd have found them, simply because he was so pissed off with them doing a runner on him, and that he didn't want to look weak in front of his men.

As to him thinking its wrong to kill children he'd grown up with, but okay to kill children who were completely innocent, yes, you're right it is an awesome moral dilemma. However, I also think it goes to show what a nasty piece of work Theon is and how very un-Stark-ish he is despite living as Ned's ward for all of those years.

I should have rephrased my statement about his treatment of Bran and Rickon. In my opinion, the idea that it's never acceptable to kill a child shouldn't just apply to Bran and Rickon (because he grew up with them), he shouldn't kill children AT ALL. There's no honour in killing the innocent.
And besides, by justifying the killing of peasant children, that's like Theon saying the lives of the peasant children are less important because (a) they're peasants (b) he didn't grow up with them. Which, in effect, I guess he is saying.

Yeah, well, Theon is obviously morally reprehensible for killing children in the first place. I agree with you that that's never okay. (I think it would obvious that any sane person who agree with that but...you never know. It's the internet.) The truth is that Theon is an incredibly moral swkewed person from the get go. You see that from his first point of view chapter, with the way he treats his "salt-wife", Theon has a tendency to forget other people are actually people.

I admit that I always took it for granted that Theon wouldn't have killed Bran and Rickon because he says in his private thoughts he wouldn't have, which is perhaps really silly of me. Theon is an unreliable narrator and is already proven to be delusional (two traits he shares with some of the Starks, actually), so he might have killed them. But I always thought that moment was meant to show two things. One, that Theon did have his limits and two, the weird class logic of the time. To Theon it isn't wrong to kill the peasants, despite the fact that they were innocent, but killing Bran and Rickon, who had defied him, was wrong somehow and I always thought his familiarity with them was a big part (because people are only people to Theon when you knock him over the head with it) but also the idea that low-born people just don't mean anything to most nobles.

I always found it interesting how unforgivable the fandom (not you specifically, fandom in general) finds Theon for this act, since two fandom darlings have similar pedigrees, Jaime attempting to kill Bran by throwing his out of a window and Sandor actually murdering the poor butcher's boy, Mycah.

Anyyywaaay. I'm going to stop taking up your sorting application with my Theon obsession now.

Yeah, well, Theon is obviously morally reprehensible for killing children in the first place. I agree with you that that's never okay. (I think it would obvious that any sane person who agree with that but...you never know. It's the internet.)

Sometimes I like stating the obvious, maybe my comments about Theon is one of those times! *lol* You're right though, sometimes online, you never know ...

The truth is that Theon is an incredibly moral swkewed person from the get go. You see that from his first point of view chapter, with the way he treats his "salt-wife", Theon has a tendency to forget other people are actually people.

Oh indeed, and I think the way he treated his "salt-wife" was when I started to question what type of person he really was. I think what Sirius says to Ron about Hermione's view on Crouch in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire could also apply to Theon:

"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.

I admit that I always took it for granted that Theon wouldn't have killed Bran and Rickon because he says in his private thoughts he wouldn't have, which is perhaps really silly of me.

See, even though Theon says in his own private thoughts that he wouldn't have killed them, I found it kind of hard to believe. I felt almost like he was trying to convince himself that he wouldn't, so as to convince himself that he wasn't a 'bad guy'.

Theon is an unreliable narrator and is already proven to be delusional (two traits he shares with some of the Starks, actually), so he might have killed them.

As I said above, I think him killing them really would have depended on circumstance. Even though he's morally ambiguous, I don't think Theon is an out and out evil character. Again, another reason I love those books, because there's so many shades of grey.

To Theon it isn't wrong to kill the peasants, despite the fact that they were innocent, but killing Bran and Rickon, who had defied him, was wrong somehow and I always thought his familiarity with them was a big part (because people are only people to Theon when you knock him over the head with it) but also the idea that low-born people just don't mean anything to most nobles.

Yes, that's the idea I found most interesting. The way lower born people are somehow lesser. I think it's a common trap that nobles of that period fell into. Actually, I think it's something 'modern' people do too. You see prime examples of this, where a celebrity will get off lightly from serious charges, simply because they're famous.

I always found it interesting how unforgivable the fandom (not you specifically, fandom in general) finds Theon for this act, since two fandom darlings have similar pedigrees, Jaime attempting to kill Bran by throwing his out of a window and Sandor actually murdering the poor butcher's boy, Mycah.

Yes, that is interesting. I think it happens in fandom a lot, where people like to romanticize certain characters. Take the H.P fandom for example ... some of Snape's wrong doings are forgotten because woman are attracted to him, and its okay because he was acting out of love for Lily.

Sandor, I think is another case of romanticizing a morally grey character, and I think that happens for a number of reasons. Mycah was effectively a no-body, so it doesn't matter as much (much the same as the peasants Theons killed). Then of course, people want to see the good in him so they can pair him with Sansa. Plus, because of the way he was treated by Gregor, people feel sorry for him.

Then, of course, there's the fact (in my opinion) that his character has had much more development than Theon's. Sandor has had a chance to redeem himself somewhat.

Likewise, I think Jaimie's character development and how much he's changed attributes to why some are more forgiving of him trying to murder Bran.

In my opinion, Jaimie is no longer the man he was when he pushed Bran from the window, and I think he'd react differently now.

Anyyywaaay. I'm going to stop taking up your sorting application with my Theon obsession now.

Oh, don't. I'm greatly enjoying it. Everyone has a favorite character, and its great discussing these characters with other fans.

Hmm. Here's a question, though. If Theon was all, "Coat their heads in tar and put them on spikes over the gates, so it looks like I killed my foster-brothers" ... would he have found sacrificial Bran-and-Rickon substitutes for display even if he had found the boys? I mean, consider: at that point he was invested in showing Greyjoy loyalty to get a stronger claim to the Seastone Chair (mostly 'cos Asha was pissing him off) and trying to make up for his not having paid the iron price for his jewellery etc. He would have had to do something pretty impressive to make up for that, and potentially screwing up the Stark line of succession would have been a good thing to do. But if he was morally opposed to killing kids he grew up with, then all he'd have to do is put decoy heads up and lock the actual Stark kids up someplace (very Tower of London), still look like an iron-blooded Greyjoy and not do anything he considers really immoral.

Added bonus? If it hadn't all gone wrong for the Starks and Robb had marched up with an army of Northmen to take Winterfell back from the under-strength Greyjoy forces, Theon could have secured a peacable surrender by handing over the alive and unharmed Bran and Rickon, declare loyalty to the Stark and pretend it was all a big plot on Theon's part to sneakily have Greyjoy strength protect Winterfell while the Stark forces conquered in the name of the King in the North.

Very interesting thoughts. I think Theon catching Bran and Rickon, locking them up in a tower and then finding sacrificial Bran-and-Rickon substitutes for display, would have depended on where, when and with whom Theon found the boys.

I honestly think, if during the height of his anger, after chasing them around for hours, and surrounded by his own men, Theon had found Bran and Rickon, he would have killed them. Yes, he'd feel very guilty about it later. But I think when faced with his own anger, and not wanting to look weak in front of the other iron born, he would have gone against his morals.

However, if he had happened upon the boys when calmer and alone, then yes, I think his morality would have saved Bran and Rickon, and like you suggested used the decoy heads.

As to the question of what would have happened if it hadn't all gone wrong for the Starks and Robb, again, that would depend on what Theon did with the boys.

If he had killed them in his anger and need to prove himself, then he'd be screwed and nothing he could say to Robb, Catelyn and the other Starks would have saved him.

However, if he did have Bran and Rickon locked up in a tower, and handed them over unharmed, I can see Theon claiming it was all a plot to protect Winterfell and the boys. If Theon knew the Greyjoy forces were beat, I could see him "switching sides" again and trying to save his own skin.

Despite the morality Theon showed with being against the boys he grew up with, I think he - like a lot of iron men - is very self-serving.

I think I'm siding with the Tyrell vote here. It's the gardens and the romanticism, I think, which outweights the 'Family, Duty, Honour' shtick in you.

Stark with a Tully grandparent and a residence in the Reach ;)

Stark!

Ooh, this is a tough one. I see Tully, Stark, and Tyrell, but your good/bad qualities are tipping me over into Stark.

I'm seeing Tyrell here.

Y'know, I was seeing a lot of Tyrell, and some Stark, but the independent streak makes me think more Tully -- they have a strong emphasis on family, but they don't seem to be as interdependent on each other as the Tyrells, and even the Starks.

I had a hard time with this one, for the same reasons as some others- saw a mix of three houses here. I think in the end I'm going with the Tully vibe as being the closest, though the black-and-white viewing of certain characters while showing distinct blind spots for others allllmost slid me over into Stark, but that would have involved me using comments as much as the app, which I try to avoid.

Thanks for the vote.

Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on your comment about the black-and-white viewing of certain characters while showing distinct blind spots for others , please? I think I know what you're referring to - my dislike of certain characters and only seeing the bad in them, where as I'm more forgiving of my favorite characters - but I just wanted to know what you thought, as I'm interested in how others see the books differently etc. :)

Wait, you want a straight answer from a -Martell-? *shifty-eyes* Nah, just kidding, I'll elaborate. *grins*

One of the things that struck me was your utter condemnation of Theon while wanting Sandor, of all people, to get together with Sansa, yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong- Theon isn't one of my favourite characters or anything (neither is Sandor), but neither of them are my -least- favourite characters either. On the other hand, I do like Jaime a lot, but I'll be the first to admit he's done some really awful things and is -still- threatening to do awful things (with a trebuchet!). In all their cases, I can see why things in their past and present have had an influence on them, while not feeling it excuses their behaviour at all.

As to why this would lean me towards Stark... well. We see Eddard doing it- he pretty much ignores and forgives all of Robert's flaws, up to and including the fact that he stepped over the dead bodies of children to take his throne. (Don't even get me started on how his rebellion was more likely pride and testosterone-fueled than any real desire to free the land from the rule of a mad king.) He also makes the mistake of trusting Littlefinger even after being told by that man himself, several times, to trust no one. Yet Eddard also pretty much universally despises all of House Lannister, something that Lysa Arryn easily feeds with the note she sends at the beginning of AGoT. Sansa does the same thing- she is completely blind to Joffrey's flaws until she almost literally has her nose rubbed in them, and she isn't a lot better where Sandor is concerned, either. (Although at least she has enough sense to be afraid of him.) At the same time, I don't think Sansa has -yet- wondered about Arya (though she's shown concern for her brothers) and was pretty much universally hard on her sister during the entire time they were in each other's presence.

I mean, don't get me wrong. The Starks are hardly the only House that does this (Lysa has a blind spot for Littlefinger in that she sees only good, while Catelyn has one for Jon in that she sees only her rival for Ned instead of the boy), but they're certainly the House that have stood out as the most consistent for this sort of tendency for me. All the same, to base a vote on that would be silly, because as someone else said, most people have a tendency to forgive the wrongs of their favourite characters in books, and what we'll forgive in a -character- isn't necessarily anything we would tolerate in a living, breathing person.

So, since my original impression had been slightly more on the Tully side, that's where I put you.

Wait, you want a straight answer from a -Martell-? *shifty-eyes* Nah, just kidding, I'll elaborate. *grins*

*snerk* Seriously though, thanks for answering. I love debating this sort of stuff with other book fans. ^_^

One of the things that struck me was your utter condemnation of Theon while wanting Sandor, of all people, to get together with Sansa, yeah. [......] All the same, to base a vote on that would be silly, because as someone else said, most people have a tendency to forgive the wrongs of their favourite characters in books, and what we'll forgive in a -character- isn't necessarily anything we would tolerate in a living, breathing person.

See, this is why I asked. I knew one of the points was my condemnation of Theon, but I wasn't sure which character I was being too forgiving of. I was wondering if perhaps I might also be slightly bias towards Dany and Jon and not see all their flaws. You're right though, maybe I am too fogiving of Sandor, but like you said, most people have a tendency to forgive the wrongs of their favourite characters in books. (*couch Severus Snape *cough*) I think its probably a trait I have in real life too, I'm probably more forgiving of those I'm closest to; especially my son. Little guy could get away with anything as long as he grins cutely at me! ^_^

So, since my original impression had been slightly more on the Tully side, that's where I put you.

Well, that makes sense. As you said yourself, it seems silly to vote for a house simply based on that. ^_^

Oh, not a problem, I don't mind answering more fully if my reasoning is something more than a hunch/intuition. :)

As for Dany and Jon, I tend to feel that the author -expects- us to root for them. They're deliberately written in a manner to be shown in the best light as possible, to be accepted as examples of All That Is Good (TM). This didn't really work on me, because I actually -prefer- the morally grey characters normally (Jaime, Doran, and Bronn were my listed favourites, as an example of what I mean). So while I understand why people would think these characters are awesome, I find myself wishing they had more flaws- I guess I want them to be more "human". I admit I honestly don't get the Sandor fanlove, though I'm starting to suspect it's a woman thing. (No offence meant, truly- I know men and women think and feel differently about things and the only explanation I can come up with for my total incomprehension on why the Hound is well-liked is that I'm male and will never understand. *laughs*)

Anyhow, welcome to the community. :)

I see a lot of Tyrell in you. It's a general feeling, and they love their family too! :)

There is a lot of Tully here, but for me, Stark wins out with your personality traits and comments on the books.

ebonhost made some very good points in favor of Tully and Stark, but I am still seeing more of a Tyrell in you. There's something about you that seems very "Growing Strong" to me, in the way you talk about your past experiences and how you talk about Dany and Jon.

I don't really get a strong feeling from you either way. Your traits suggest a more relaxed house like Tyrell, Tully, or Stark but I can't find any characters that seem to match your traits. I didn't really get a strong feel of your personality -- I felt like you spent more time talking about your desire to be financially independent, which doesn't really help me with the sorting.

So... I think I'll say Tyrell for the reasons people mentioned -- gardens and a growing strong sort of feel.

Your best qualities seemed very Tully-ish (or at least, Catelyn-ish), but I saw a lot of Stark in you too. And then there's your escapist side, hmmm. I'll go with Stark because of the dreaminess in the Stark kids... who are technically Stark. :)

I see lots of Stark, almost no Tyrell but mostly Tully. In places your application reminded me a lot of Lysa, or at least of how Lysa would have become if she'd been allowed to have Petyr's baby.

Actually, your reasons for disliking Cat put you squarely in Tully for me. I actually find that a number of people who don't like Cat are often Tullys in my eyes, mostly for their reasons. It's interesting. And

ebonhost made some very good points, I think in the way you think about Theon, and your positive and negative qualities. I don't really feel the Stark though I can see where people are getting it...I think the problem for me is your listing 'lazy' which feels like more of a Tully flaw to me. We Starks tend to overwork, I think. XD

Enough of this tedious self-justification. Fishyfishyfish.

While it makes a good dramatic storyline, I don't think she's the right leader for the BwB, (though understandably) she's worryingly obsessed with revenge and I don't think she is what R'hllor (if he's real) had in mind when he began resurrecting people.
To be fair, UnCat and her actions are pretty far removed from LivingCat. I don't think you can judge Cat and her life based on actions done by a zombie.

I see Stark, I guess.

Hard to decide, but I think I'm gonna have to go with Stark.

I hate to be a voice in the crowd, but Tully

I can see a bit of stark but mosly i see tully

Tully.

Congratulations! A very close one! After receiving six votes for Tyrell and twelve votes for Tully, you have been sorted into House Stark with thirteen votes!

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Please don't forget to join the following subcommunities:

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We are pleased to have you here and we look forward to your participation!

Awesome. I'm so pleased to be sorted into Stark. ^_^

Thanks to everyone who voted for me, and to those I had book discussions with. I look forwards to seeing more of you around the communities and getting to know everyone. ^_^

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

win or die

Greyjoy

Lannister

Stark

Stark

Stark

Tyrell

Re: Tyrell

Lannister

Martell

no subject

Tyrell

Re: Tyrell

Re: Tyrell

Re: Tyrell

Re: Tyrell

Re: Tyrell

Lannister

Targaryen

Stark!

Tully

Martell

Targaryen

Martell

Re: Martell

Re: Martell

Re: Martell

Re: Martell

Targaryen

no subject

Tyrell

Stark

Tyrell

Tyrell

Stark

Tyrell

Stark

Tyrell

Greyjoy

Lannister

SORTED: STARK

Re: SORTED: STARK