Yeah, well, Theon is obviously morally reprehensible for killing children in the first place. I agree with you that that's never okay. (I think it would obvious that any sane person who agree with that but...you never know. It's the internet.)
Sometimes I like stating the obvious, maybe my comments about Theon is one of those times! *lol* You're right though, sometimes online, you never know ...
The truth is that Theon is an incredibly moral swkewed person from the get go. You see that from his first point of view chapter, with the way he treats his "salt-wife", Theon has a tendency to forget other people are actually people.
Oh indeed, and I think the way he treated his "salt-wife" was when I started to question what type of person he really was. I think what Sirius says to Ron about Hermione's view on Crouch in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire could also apply to Theon:
"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.
I admit that I always took it for granted that Theon wouldn't have killed Bran and Rickon because he says in his private thoughts he wouldn't have, which is perhaps really silly of me.
See, even though Theon says in his own private thoughts that he wouldn't have killed them, I found it kind of hard to believe. I felt almost like he was trying to convince himself that he wouldn't, so as to convince himself that he wasn't a 'bad guy'.
Theon is an unreliable narrator and is already proven to be delusional (two traits he shares with some of the Starks, actually), so he might have killed them.
As I said above, I think him killing them really would have depended on circumstance. Even though he's morally ambiguous, I don't think Theon is an out and out evil character. Again, another reason I love those books, because there's so many shades of grey.
To Theon it isn't wrong to kill the peasants, despite the fact that they were innocent, but killing Bran and Rickon, who had defied him, was wrong somehow and I always thought his familiarity with them was a big part (because people are only people to Theon when you knock him over the head with it) but also the idea that low-born people just don't mean anything to most nobles.
Yes, that's the idea I found most interesting. The way lower born people are somehow lesser. I think it's a common trap that nobles of that period fell into. Actually, I think it's something 'modern' people do too. You see prime examples of this, where a celebrity will get off lightly from serious charges, simply because they're famous.
I always found it interesting how unforgivable the fandom (not you specifically, fandom in general) finds Theon for this act, since two fandom darlings have similar pedigrees, Jaime attempting to kill Bran by throwing his out of a window and Sandor actually murdering the poor butcher's boy, Mycah.
Yes, that is interesting. I think it happens in fandom a lot, where people like to romanticize certain characters. Take the H.P fandom for example ... some of Snape's wrong doings are forgotten because woman are attracted to him, and its okay because he was acting out of love for Lily.
Sandor, I think is another case of romanticizing a morally grey character, and I think that happens for a number of reasons. Mycah was effectively a no-body, so it doesn't matter as much (much the same as the peasants Theons killed). Then of course, people want to see the good in him so they can pair him with Sansa. Plus, because of the way he was treated by Gregor, people feel sorry for him.
Then, of course, there's the fact (in my opinion) that his character has had much more development than Theon's. Sandor has had a chance to redeem himself somewhat.
Likewise, I think Jaimie's character development and how much he's changed attributes to why some are more forgiving of him trying to murder Bran.
In my opinion, Jaimie is no longer the man he was when he pushed Bran from the window, and I think he'd react differently now.
Anyyywaaay. I'm going to stop taking up your sorting application with my Theon obsession now.
Oh, don't. I'm greatly enjoying it. Everyone has a favorite character, and its great discussing these characters with other fans.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Tyrell
Date: 2009-11-17 04:48 pm (UTC)Sometimes I like stating the obvious, maybe my comments about Theon is one of those times! *lol* You're right though, sometimes online, you never know ...
The truth is that Theon is an incredibly moral swkewed person from the get go. You see that from his first point of view chapter, with the way he treats his "salt-wife", Theon has a tendency to forget other people are actually people.
Oh indeed, and I think the way he treated his "salt-wife" was when I started to question what type of person he really was. I think what Sirius says to Ron about Hermione's view on Crouch in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire could also apply to Theon:
"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.
I admit that I always took it for granted that Theon wouldn't have killed Bran and Rickon because he says in his private thoughts he wouldn't have, which is perhaps really silly of me.
See, even though Theon says in his own private thoughts that he wouldn't have killed them, I found it kind of hard to believe. I felt almost like he was trying to convince himself that he wouldn't, so as to convince himself that he wasn't a 'bad guy'.
Theon is an unreliable narrator and is already proven to be delusional (two traits he shares with some of the Starks, actually), so he might have killed them.
As I said above, I think him killing them really would have depended on circumstance. Even though he's morally ambiguous, I don't think Theon is an out and out evil character. Again, another reason I love those books, because there's so many shades of grey.
To Theon it isn't wrong to kill the peasants, despite the fact that they were innocent, but killing Bran and Rickon, who had defied him, was wrong somehow and I always thought his familiarity with them was a big part (because people are only people to Theon when you knock him over the head with it) but also the idea that low-born people just don't mean anything to most nobles.
Yes, that's the idea I found most interesting. The way lower born people are somehow lesser. I think it's a common trap that nobles of that period fell into. Actually, I think it's something 'modern' people do too. You see prime examples of this, where a celebrity will get off lightly from serious charges, simply because they're famous.
I always found it interesting how unforgivable the fandom (not you specifically, fandom in general) finds Theon for this act, since two fandom darlings have similar pedigrees, Jaime attempting to kill Bran by throwing his out of a window and Sandor actually murdering the poor butcher's boy, Mycah.
Yes, that is interesting. I think it happens in fandom a lot, where people like to romanticize certain characters. Take the H.P fandom for example ... some of Snape's wrong doings are forgotten because woman are attracted to him, and its okay because he was acting out of love for Lily.
Sandor, I think is another case of romanticizing a morally grey character, and I think that happens for a number of reasons. Mycah was effectively a no-body, so it doesn't matter as much (much the same as the peasants Theons killed). Then of course, people want to see the good in him so they can pair him with Sansa. Plus, because of the way he was treated by Gregor, people feel sorry for him.
Then, of course, there's the fact (in my opinion) that his character has had much more development than Theon's. Sandor has had a chance to redeem himself somewhat.
Likewise, I think Jaimie's character development and how much he's changed attributes to why some are more forgiving of him trying to murder Bran.
In my opinion, Jaimie is no longer the man he was when he pushed Bran from the window, and I think he'd react differently now.
Anyyywaaay. I'm going to stop taking up your sorting application with my Theon obsession now.
Oh, don't. I'm greatly enjoying it. Everyone has a favorite character, and its great discussing these characters with other fans.